Transforming Data into Results | Ragnarokast #6

Steven

I’m Steven. 

Spencer

And I’m Spencer. Welcome to Ragnarokast, your podcast for all things marketing and MarTech. 

Steven

Hello everyone. 

Both

We’re the Co-CEOs of Ragnarok. 

Spencer

Hi there everybody. Welcome. For those you can see us that can hear us. Today in the studio we have myself, Spencer, we’ve got our co-host, Steven is back in action. 

Steven

Lemo Steven is back in action. 

Spencer

I don’t know what the order of these podcasts is, so maybe we’ve already established that, maybe not, but he’s here. 

And then for the very first time, we have our, clients, Amanda and Adam here. 

Amanda

Hello 

Spencer

From Updater and also from Life. 

Amanda

Yes. 

Adam

Hello. 

The company Life, the board game, or real? Well they exist outside of the company too, I assume 

Spencer

Somewhat Actually. Have you guys seen that show Severance? 

Amanda

No, I’ve heard about it, yes. 

Spencer

Okay. I won’t, I won’t give anything away, but yeah, it’s relevant. Amanda, Adam, do you guys want to just, you know, introduce yourselves, talk a little bit about what you do? 

Amanda

Sure. I can start. Hi everyone, I’m Amanda Amato. I have been with Updater for eight and a half years, and I currently serve as our director of user engagement. So user engagement is a team that kind of sits between product and marketing. We’re responsible for all communications to our various user audiences. So whether that’s through email, SMS, or Push, we’re responsible for campaign production from End-To-end, our goal is basically to deliver an engaging user experience that compliments our app and adds significant value for our users. And in all of these efforts, we run a lot of tests to try to optimize the user experience. 

So hence the importance of our partnership with the data team. Which is a good segway to introduce my counterpart. Adam, 

Adam

Thank you. Hi, I am Adam Salzman and I joined Updater about two years ago to help start our team. That’s called product analytics. And our mission is simply to use data to improve business outcomes. So we partner closely with stakeholders across the company like Amanda and user engagements to, you know, be very data-driven about our decision making, as well as try to solve some of the toughest problems within, you know, running our company as well as solving problems for our users who are moving. Mostly our users are people moving. Currently my world is split between two focuses. One is on a dedicated pod that’s building a kind of next-gen resonant move-in app. And the other half of my work is split on like finding, partnering, and pursuing data opportunities, which is a lot of fun. And really that’s how Amanda and I partner. So it’s very high impact, very much focused on results, very ad hoc. As Amanda mentioned, this includes loss of experimentation. Let’s get started on the podcast. 

Spencer

Alright!, 

Steven

Yeah!

Spencer

I love that. So we’re gonna jump right into the questions here. So before we get into the how of the conversation, Amanda and Adam, tell us a little bit more about updater. 

Speaker 2

Updater makes moving easier for the millions of Americans who move every year. Have either of you moved recently or can you remember your last move? 

Speaker 1

Yes, and I use Updater every single time. That’s right. I’m a big fan of it. Yeah, so I just recently moved from New York to Philadelphia’s. Spencer likes to say I’m sorry buddy. I didn’t mean to leave. And, and yeah, I used Updater of course because I, I use it every time more to organize for myself, you know, which I think is really nice. Like, oh, I almost forgot to do this, or I forgot to do that. So it’s the checklist that I use it for, I’m not gonna lie. Yep, yep, yep, yep. But I love it. I’ve used it three times prior to that. So 

Speaker 2

You are a loyal customer. 

Speaker 1

It, no, I’m very loyal, But you’re not answering my question the right way now, but I was gonna say you’re a different case because you moved with updater, so it was much easier for you. Right. But moving is typically a very stressful process. So stressful. In fact, it is the third most stressful life event after death and divorce. And it’s also something that 

Wait, which order? Death first, then divorce, or the 

Speaker 2

Other way around, I believe. I believe it’s death first, then divorce. Okay, then moving. 

So it’s also something that pretty much everybody goes through. People move multiple times in their lives. So it’s a pretty universal problem. So we’re really passionate about taking this process that’s normally very stressful and painful and turning it into a more seamless digital experience. And our business model’s actually pretty unique too. So the way that we acquire our users is we actually partner with different real estate companies. So you can think of property management companies or real estate brokerages, and they invite their clients and residents into a fully personalized moving app. So that app that Steven used in that experience, we then help the people who are moving take care of everything that they need to for their move. 

So they can do things like forward their mail with the post office, update their accounts and records, set up their internet, their utilities, book moving services. You can buy boxes, everything that you can think of that you need to take care of for your move, you can do an updater. So by taking these different groups of people and pulling them together, the real estate companies, the people themselves who are moving, and also these entities that are providing services to people who are moving as well. We’ve essentially brought all of the different partners of the moving ecosystem into one place and started building out this really unique three-sided marketplace that brings in everybody that’s involved in the moving process. 

Speaker 1

Talk about a win-win win, huh? Yeah, right. So you kinda mentioned you have three different stakeholders. So I remember when we came on board started working with you guys, it was pretty early on. I felt like our primary stakeholder was just kind of the user and their experience. Like we weren’t really talking as much with the, I almost think of it as like the B2B side of the business kind of separately. So you’re thinking about this kind of B to B2C to B type model here. Yeah. Where it’s, I imagine from a data perspective, you know, in one case we have user, we have employees tied to companies and we have users tied to non companies. 

You know, how do you, how do you kinda like work on this from just like a marketing and data perspective to like kinda have like a clean wave of sort of having all these things measured equally? 

Speaker 3

So yeah, our, our marketplace, well our app, our platform has a lot of sides and a lot of participants, I would say like our culture at Updater and our vision is very mover focused. So probably number one priority is the person using our app to move. And then when the app is working as expected, everyone else is happy as well. So we arrange our models that way. Like when we say look at performance or we run an AB test, everything is focused on, we call our movers either our, our users, either movers or consumers. Everything is focused in primary denominated as a mover metric. And then we bring in the influence of the other participants, whether that’s a vendor that they’re working with or whether that’s a property or an onsite. 

Long story short, it’s all focused around satisfying the needs of the mover and then looking at how the other engagers on the platform are either there’s opportunity or there’s some friction that we need to help solve. 

Speaker 1

And then how do you kind of balance the, because I imagine that your B2B side of the business, they have certain, I’ll say expectations about certain things that might, do they ever sort of cause friction with the mover side of the platform? Like how do you kind of balance these two folks who have very different almost objectives, right? The movers for the ease of moving the business or the, the real estate company is more to just, I guess, get people in faster or what’s the, you know, what are the different objectives, how do you balance them? 

Speaker 3

Exactly. It’s, it’s not just you turn it on and it works. There’s, 

Speaker 1

You Know, being a startup, like the answer is, we don’t know. A lot of times we learn as we go, you know, we’re like kind of building the plane in flight to use a tired analogy. 

But how we balance, say an objective is, say a property may want something that’s highly automated and doesn’t take a lot of time, but a user may need something that’s more personalized and customized. So one we would say do ab testing to find out the right solution and then kind of, you know, through brainstorming figure out how can we, how can we build that in the most scalable way? 

So it’s, it’s a lot of iteration and it’s a lot of looking for the scalable, practical ways to solve the problem. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. And bringing it back to the idea of a three-sided marketplace, though, you know, to answer your question, Steven, a well-functioning, three-sided marketplace works in and of itself. Yeah. So when the user is happy and they’re using the product that’s servicing, that’s, you know, making the service providers happy, they’re going to continue to use it when they’re providing those services and, and creating a vast, helpful marketplace with everything that somebody needs. Our real estate partners wanna offer this to their clients. So when it’s all in the perfect world, it does all work harmoniously and, and work together. 

But that doesn’t mean to say that you can just get there. So there are challenges along the way, right? 

Speaker 1

I, I imagine, yeah, An interesting thing to add out to Amanda’s point is say, think about something not working. Like I’m moving into the building and I’m upset the app didn’t work. That’s gonna mean me as a mover is sending an email and complaining to like the leasing agent. But if things are working, then the interests are aligned, there’s like less back and forth emails needed, the app is working. So there are like incentives where everything is aligned a little bit. 

So when we started working together, gosh, like four years ago, five years, I mean, Spencer, you’ll remember five years ago, 2018. 2018, yeah. Bam. So long. 

Speaker 2

I was gonna say, yeah, 

Speaker 1

I mean that, that was, that was three and a half years into your tenure. Yeah, I mean, long time I remember, you know, we were in the process of migrating into a new email platform and one of the main things that we were doing was trying to kind of balance some of the behaviors we’re trying to drive in the app more or less, like get people to come back in, get people to hit certain milestones, remind people about the different, like items in the checklist, if you will, that they had to complete prior to like having a successful move. Have you sort of seen, it sounds like you’ve kinda shifted some of that to be more done in the product or is it still kind of a, a balance between, you know, communication externally plus product? 

Like how do you kind of keep that user moving through, so to speak? 

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. It’s a really good question. It’s definitely a balance between both. And I think that’s where the, the purpose of today’s conversation really comes into focus. And that’s where the data team has really unlocked a lot of that power for us in making all of the data that we have accessible to us allows us to run experimentation through the full platform. So whereas I’m running this user engagement team and we are working on like, like our main tool that we use today to, to execute on these initiatives is through email. We’re able though to understand through email what sort of impact our tests are having in platform as well. 

So by bringing that data forward and allowing it to be more easily accessible, we’re able to run tests that are allowing us to see what sort of impact we’re making. So we are able to use email as an extension of the product and extension of the entire user experience and to run really meaningful tests that drive really meaningful business impact as well. But yeah, I mean Ragnarok played a really major role in, you know, the implementation of our ESP that we have today and still use, which is Iterable and the build out of what has essentially become our acquisition engine, like the very front of the funnel for us, all the way through the whole user communications process. 

Because when I started working with Ragnarok, I know that we didn’t have an in-house team to build or implement any of this stuff. So we relied really heavily on Steven and others with Ragnarok to help us build this function out from the ground up. So not just implementing, you know, campaigns, but starting once we had a solid groundwork starting to test, to optimize to learn. And from there always just having like a helpful sounding board to go back to for advice and for questions and for, you know, strategic, for strategic advice as well. So you guys are really crucial in helping us build this amazing a function that we have today. 

A full team, I feel so 

Speaker 1

Proud. 

Speaker 2

Yeah. But even as we’ve built out this team and now we have this function inhouse, I mean, look, I’m here today. We still work with you guys because we know that if we need additional bandwidth or if there’s a particular challenge that we’re facing, we know that we can always, you know, come back for support as we need it. And so we’re very appreciative of that. 

Speaker 1

Yes. Well we love updater, we love you guys so much. And actually, Adam, you had mentioned something really interesting about experimentation and whatnot, sort of using emails as sort of like a pilot channel of things. And it makes me think back to very early on, Amanda, when you and I were working with Chris Byington on the team directly about that, and he was kind of amazed by the AB testing functionality that we had in Iterable and we were trying to kind of recreate this thing in-House. We’re like, actually we don’t really need to do, we can kind of use, so we’re even trying to find ways to kinda shortcut early on how to, how to get some of the like experimentation data, if you will, out of the platform and use that. 

So it’s good to see you’re continuing that trend because that’s, you know, one thing we tell a lot of folks to do is like, well, where can you like cheaply test? Because doing product test is expensive no matter, like, no matter how many tools you shortcut to it, you still have to design and experience painted doors or not. Like it can get pretty costly. 

Speaker 3

Absolutely. Like what I think of our challenges, the number one challenge for me to deliver for the stakeholders as well as for like the team to accomplish the results is like just getting high confidence learnings in the shortest period of time and exposing the business to as little risk as possible. ’cause like the absolute worst thing that could happen is we make a product change. We think it’s a positive for the user experience and the business results, and then two weeks later we have to roll it back and start from zero. Like our, we’re a startup, we don’t have the resources to make that big of a mistake. 

So we would rather know, like at the time of making the decision, whether it’s an AB test or a choice of some other kind of change, we would, we need the competence learning. So we’re making the right choices, or we know that we haven’t found the solution like right away. So, and really with the platform that we have today, we have a very high success rate in like data integrity and like decision making. Our tests, our changes don’t always win, but our competence in the data and that data staying the same, that is extremely high here at Updater. So that’s, I think a challenge solved. 

Speaker 2

Yeah, and to your point, Steven, we are able to use email and different, you know, other channels as kind of like a proving ground for products. So off I mentioned that user engagement really sits between product and marketing. We work very closely with the product team and can understand if there’s a test that they, if there’s an idea that they’re trying to validate before taking the effort to build it out and test it in product, sometimes we can turn it around much more quickly and get at least a quick signal via email, for example, as to whether or not something is worthwhile to pursue. So Adam, 

Speaker 1

You’re on the data team. Amanda, you’re on the marketing team and you know, we’ve seen how like the, I, I guess how the, you can work together on the tools, but like how have you nurtured the relationship between those two teams? Like internally? Maybe that’s something that, ’cause I, I mean I’m not gonna name any names, but we’ve seen many companies where these two teams literally like barely talk to each other. And it’s great that you have like this, this close relationship for the, well, for yourselves, for the company culture, but, but for the customer so that they have a, a more unified experience. 

So how have you guys internally kind of, you know, championed that and worked on that? 

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think it, it comes down to a few key things, like to build a successful relationship here. 

First, I think it’s just having a really strong foundation. So you need the resources, the tools, the people, you know, the actual ESP, the experimentation platform bodies and chairs to do these things, to strategize and to build this out. 

In my opinion, that’s the hardest part about, you know, starting this work. It requires a lot of time and effort and expertise to do it right and to do it correctly. And this is something, like I said, that Ragnarok was really crucial in helping us build out from the beginning. 

Another key thing I think is data democratization. I’ll let Adam talk about that, but I do need to pump up our data team a little bit because the data team at Updater is absolutely incredible and they really foster this, this culture of data democratization, which is just, you know, making data accessible to all so that we can, so that everyone at the company is empowered to make smart decisions and to make informed decisions about the work that we should or should not do. So Adam, anything? Sorry, 

Speaker 1

Right before that I just wanna interject. I would also vote for that. 

Speaker 3

Thank you for your votes. 

Speaker 1

What, what are you talking about? Democratization, democracy, voting, baby. Bam. That’s thin, man, that’s real thin. 

Speaker 3

Oh, Skating on, sorry, go ahead Adam. Ignore that. 

I think the, the key to successful relationship that is like high impact like Amanda and I have is really comes like one part values of our company. We’re a distributed workforce at Updaters. So like we are very intentional and also empathetic about how we work with each other. Like if I just met Amanda, it’s all about getting to know each other, setting off that, finding out learning about each other, finding a common goal that we want to work for in terms of results and then establishing work practices, whether it be async, our Zoom meetings, like whatever works best, we get that all out of the way so we can succeed. 

And that’s like part of values at Updater. The outside of that, I would say the key to successful relationship is really being focused on like a user-driven model. Like during this, during this talk we’ve talked about marketing our product at Update, we just view the user and we view those things as solutions. So we’re, we’re more focused on the user opportunity or user problem, and then how best to solve it. If it’s working with our call center, the marketing team or the product team, and we look at solutions that go end to end and we’re small enough to like still execute that if you have the right relationships, which I would say is a key part of success. 

Plus Amanda’s just awesome and like, whenever there’s a need, like we need to, you know, like we’re making too much money, make less, I’m just kidding. Like, we need to, like, we need to grow revenue. Amanda and I are like, how can we do it faster than what the company wants? So 

Speaker 2

Thanks Adam. Right, right back at you. 

Speaker 3

For the data teams that aren’t engaged, I would say step one is like get to know your stakeholders and like find a common goal to work towards and then it’s all natural. 

Speaker 2

Yeah, right back at you, Steven. And I would just say too, it, it doesn’t hurt that in this partnership, you know, we’ve just kind of, we have the luxury of agility, I think, and we’re, we’re small enough to be able to take a lot of our ideas and run with them to take some really big swings and, and you know, sometimes they hit, sometimes they don’t, but that’s okay. 

We’re able to do that together and when we do that we find that we’re able to make some really, really meaningful impact on the business. Like meaningful revenue contributions, meaningful user count contributions. And so it just makes it fun. Yeah. Like working together like that, seeing the kind of impact that, you know, two to four people can make together in a short period of time is, is really powerful. 

Speaker 1

Right. Spencer? Two to four people working together can make, can make a beautiful friendship. It can really blossom into a beautiful company. Yeah, true. Yep. Born, I mean, you could be in a basement in Queens, you can, it can flood. It can flood, you can still be together. 

Speaker 2

Were you guys roommates? We were 

Speaker 1

Roommates too. Yeah. Yeah, I 

Speaker 2

Could tell. 

Speaker 1

Yeah. I remember one time, I think shortly after we started Ragnarok we’re like, yeah, we’re like big time, you know, we’re executives and I walk in, in a pipe and we lived in a basement and a pipe had burst and so the entire apartment was flooded. Like there, it was like, I wanna say like maybe a foot deep. Yep. And I just, my room was over there, but for some reason I walk in and I see my laptop just sort of floating like right by the door. Like literally floating fact that’s 

Speaker 2

Literally like parasite, the movie, the basement apartment that floods. 

Speaker 1

So I dunno. Yeah, no, it was, it was bad. And you know what, we actually did have pipes that were functional and were colored. Yeah. We did them. We painted them. Did 

Speaker 2

You have a little PTSD when you walked in the update office then 

Speaker 1

You saw Yeah, I started shaking back and forth. Oh no, it’s all coming back. 

Speaker 2

Hey, you guys need to do a podcast about like, you guys lived together and started a business together at the same time and grew up together and did all of that together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of togetherness. We 

Speaker 1

Went to different colleges. Togetherness. Yeah. We went to different colleges and different high schools. Different high schools. Yeah. Okay. 

Speaker 2

Well I missed them so much. You loved me. You loved me. Hey, listen, Steven came down every weekend. All right. That’s right. We, we were buds. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Anyway. Well actually, if, if you don’t mind, I wanted to interject here really, really quick, which is, Amanda, you have this very unique role, right? Like you, most teams as, as sort of Adam mentioned is like, it’s pretty binary. It’s marketing team and data team. You’re this like hybrid like data product marketer person, you know, like talk about a triangle. Yeah. You know, you kind of have the whole, you, you’re like the tri force, right? 

Tri force of MarTech, try force MarTech. 

Yeah, I like that. So how, how, how did you kind of wind up here? You know, like this is, this is such an interesting role, so to speak. Yeah. Like, and do you think that, you know, that this like a lot of, should other companies have a role like yours? Or is it it works specifically for Updater? Yeah, 

It’s a great question and you’re, you’re right. It is a really unique place to be. My history at Updater has always been on the marketing team. And you know, what happened in this case was we had a, we had a role at Updater called an engagement manager. And that was a person that sat on the product team and basically was responsible for ensuring that we had campaigns in place that serviced the product, right? So transactional campaigns, if a user transacted in the product, they worked on our acquisition funnel. They also, which is our like invite platform, we invite people through email to join Updater. 

And then I would say they started, you know, to foray a bit into some abandonment style campaigns, right? But it was pretty black and white and, and focused on those areas. 

Startup world. This person announced they were leaving. And so our leadership asked me to just temporarily fill in this space while we immediately backfilled the role. And I’ve been doing it now since 2019. So as a marketer that came into this space, I was like, there’s so much opportunity here to start to actually proactively engage with our user. What if we introduce lifecycle campaigns, different touchpoint to be helpful, to provide more context, to just hold our user’s hand throughout their journey with update or, and through a move, which is a very stressful time. And over the years, almost every campaign that we’ve introduced that’s net new has proven to be beneficial. 

And from there it’s led us, you know, we’ve built a really strong baseline that we’ve then optimized and built upon. So it’s really interesting. It was kind of like kismet, I guess, that this happened. And I do think it’s something that’s really unique and it’s powerful if you have this, if you can build out this experimentation arm and, and have somebody that’s always focused on the user journey, you know, what, what you are saying to people, how you are re-engaging with them and getting them back into your product and focus specifically on that, partnered with a data partner who can give you really meaningful insights to help you strategize and come up with the best plan to make the most impact that matters the most for your company has been really worthwhile for us. 

So I think it is something cool for others to try. If, 

Speaker 1

And I have a question about one of your features. So, or, or actually this might be a feature request. 

So when you’re picking a moving company, like can you, is there like a, maybe a scale for how smelly you want the movers to be or, or 

Speaker 2

Not be? Would you, would you prefer them smellier? 

Speaker 1

Well, I would prefer them less smelly because there was, you know, I, I moved in my latest place and I should have used Updater, honestly. Yes. And you know, the guys that came, the one guy was great, very professional. The other guy, I don’t know his name, but forever he is known to me as Bo guy because it wasn’t just like, oh, he smells, you know, whatever everybody smells when it’s hot out. But it it, it just lingered for weeks after they really 

Speaker 2

Stayed with you. 

Speaker 1

And, and he also stacked two of my TVs on top of each like flat screen TVs on top of each other, like screens together. 

And one of them broke and I had to go and buy a new TV and 

Speaker 2

Did you submit a claim through the 

Speaker 1

Moving company? Yeah, it’s, they, they’re like, you, you broke it yourself. You how dare you. Oh my God. A New York movie company. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like, is there a, is there a way to like, to, to segue this into a real question, you know, like, actually no, I’m not gonna seg, I’m just gonna leave it there. 

Speaker 3

There’s absolutely a way. So number one, next time you need anything moved, whether it’s a whole house or a bulky item, you should use dolly dolly.com Okay. Which is one of our like wholly owned subsidiaries. So one thing that Updater did about two years ago is we acquired like a gig delivery app that also now does apartment moves. And number one reason why we did that is research came back that most people were really unhappy with the service that they got from movers. And the ability that there’s no confidence in the moving marketplace today to like, find good options. If you do want that smell, there’s no aroma filter. 

So like one of the key success metrics for Dolly is like our jobs being picked up, our helpers arriving is, you know, customer satisfaction, post move, et cetera. We track all those things and now, like our platform is so end to end. We know the moment you’re applying to apartment and we also know the moment you’re booking your movers and we know who’s delivering it and we know where they are and we’re showing you on app. So it’s like really cool to be able to monitor as well as increase the quality of the move. 

Speaker 1

But you’re saying that if I want them to smell like lavender minty, that’s, that’s not in there yet. 

Speaker 3

What you’d do is you would say, I just want to move the big items and then during the item you would say, I want a box moved by a smelly mover who smells like lavender. 

Speaker 1

Consider it added to the feature request Note. The update Roma filter. I love it. I love it. Looking forward to it. Consider it added to the feature request list. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hey Steven, do you wanna give us a quick recap of everything we talked about this episode? Let me see if I remember. Hmm. Okay, so yeah, so this was Amanda and Adam. Thank you so much for coming on. Just to quickly recap today, we sort of talked about some really interesting, interesting things you guys have going on an update, including the aroma filter. But actually it’s, it’s nice to see how a data and a marketing team can work really well together and to kind of drive an experimentation model, but also to drive the kit for the user in, in the whole sense of the world in the word, instead of having to be so kind of tied down to maybe specific metrics where as we see in traditionally marketing teams that can lead to bad user experiences. 

Whereas with, in sort of your role, it sounds like it’s actually your outcome is the user data or, or sorry, is the user engagement is the user story. So it’s really nice to see that that’s right size to, you know, actually making good product experience and, and really glad that we could be kind of part of that journey with you guys and help to build that out and excited for what you guys have in the future here. And I’m sure that, you know, again, kind of owning the whole experience end-to-end is a really great move, no pun intended, but I think there, there certainly is, is there’s always more, right? Like moving is is such a huge space and I think working with you guys helped me realize just how big it is, you know, from utilities to, I mean, you guys are gonna start power lines soon, you know? 

Yeah, yeah. Laying some cable down, you know, there’s lots to go. So just, just thank you, thank you so much. And, and, and just really, I, I just think that, that you guys are just on such the bleeding edge of what companies should be doing. So I think the fact that you still consider yourselves a startup, which I, I question at this point. You know, you’ve been around for a long time. Yeah. But you’ve always been like very lean, very agile, very ahead of the curve, which is great. ’cause you kind of invented this space in a way. So I think it’s, you know, you you have the, the, the, the sandbox, so to speak, to kind of build whatever castle you want. 

Can we, can we coin the phrase Start it up? Ooh. Ooh, yes. Okay. Where does that put us Are we started up, we’re started up. We’re started up. We started up as hell, man. Yeah, man. 

Thank you. Thanks for having us. This is really fun. Yeah. Thank you for all us. Yeah, thank you. Thanks Adam. Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already, like us on LinkedIn and do all the stuff on all the other channels that I forget what we’re on now. And visit our friends@updateratupdater.com. Ooh yes. A www.updater.com. Are you guys on threads yet? No. No threats. I’m not on threats. No cat threats. I’m on threads. On threads. Adam’s on threads. I used to 

Speaker 3

Work for Facebook, so I was like one of the first 

Speaker 1

Users. I don’t wanna be the one person in the room that says what’s threads, but I’m gonna do it because I have no idea. Stupid. I think that’s all we have to all the time we have today for you. 

Now get outta here. Thanks guys. Thank you. Thank you.